I've done em. I hate em. Every second of em. I did a keto a few years ago for about 6 weeks. I felt like shit the entire time, I got skinny-fat, my lifts went straight into the shitter, I had zero energy for fighting. The so called rebound never happened. I never felt good again, and the theory that you can eat as much as you want on these diets and not get fatter is complete HORSESHIT.
Pretty much, this diet sucked for me in every way possible.
Now it's the Paleo diet.
I have yet to figure out the obsession with these fucking diets.
"I'm going to eat like a fucking caveman! Look how hardcore I am!"
Knock yourself out. Guess what? Cavemen didn't make it dude. We changed/evolved/got better, made better tasting food, got bigger, stronger, and faster. Cavemen didn't have power racks, barbells, dumbbells, or any shit like that. There is a reason why people got better. If the god damn caveman were the pinnacle of manliness we'd all still be cavemen, humping a carcass because we didn't know any better and naming everyone we know Grogg.
Cavemen aren't here any more for a reason.
|Captain Caveman is the only cool caveman ever|
My guess is, they didn't exercise a whole lot. They probably weren't yoked out or swole. They died fairly young, and weren't too smart. So for the life of me, I can't figure out why some strength and mass guys have jumped on this damn Paleo diet bangwagon.
"Healthiest diet ever!"
I got that. And I probably even agree to SOME extent. I mean if your diet is lean meats, fruits, nuts, and vegetables that's hard to beat in terms of being healthy.
However the hating of carbs is retarded to a degree that is hard to explain. I mean do you REALLY think cavemen shunned potatoes? Potatoes come from the ground, you grow it. Yet I see plenty of Paleo boards and guru's talking about how you can't eat a damned potato, or not one very often. This is idiotic.
First off, our bodies are made to EAT carbs. Carbs and grains are not the problem. I don't give two shits what any of these diet gurus say/write/vomit, whatever. The primary source for energy in your body will always ALWAYS be glycogen. If you want to be a big, strong, robust son of a bitch you better have some glycogen in your body, and you better make it a priority in your eating. I don't know of a single impressive lifting son of a bitch that does Paleo AS written. I do know of some Paleo with milk guys and they like it (OMG THEY ARE DRINKING MILK!!! YOU AREN'T MADE TO DRINK ANOTHER ANIMALS MILK!!! :::::intellectual trainer thrashes about::::) And even if there was an impressive guy that does it now, he didn't become impressive doing it. That's because there aren't enough calories or carbs in that diet to make you fucking massive and scary. Period. I'm gonna rant more about milk later in this article too, because these anti-milk assholes drive me even more nuts with the bullshit they spew.
Our Ancestors and Old Time Lifters -
We've been eating bread for thousands of years. Same for potatoes, both red and sweet. Our ancestors ate these like crazy. They generally were not fat because they worked a physical job, didn't have an excess of food to eat, regardless of what it was, and their lives weren't based around food. In other words, they didn't rely on food to make them happy. They went fishing, hunting, played sports and games outside, went swimming, and did a whole host of other activities. In other words, they didn't eat a ton and were active, so they weren't fat.
I mean shit man, go look at some really early muscle rags. There were plenty of guys that were ripped that didn't know they couldn't eat bread and potatoes. They did some very basic calorie counting, essentially. In other words, they exercised more and ate less, and they got leaner. Ooooo SOOOO magical! Did David Copperballs travel back in time to give them this magical "get ripped" formula????
They didn't have fucking macro-nutrient breakdowns and refeeds and deloads and and a whole list of other things that you need to follow. They just ate good foods, lifted, ran, swam, and did freakin activities. I've said this over and over again, there is no magical formula to get big and strong and lean. We've known how to do this for a very long time.
Shit man, Weight Watchers has been helping people lose weight through a point system for what, decades now? And it works! And you know what it is? Calorie counting! OMG THE HUMANITY! That shit can't work it's too simple!!!!!! GRRRAAAWWRRLLLLLL!!!! ::::intellectual trainer thrashes about:::::
If you have a calorie deficit you will get leaner.
If you have a calorie surplus you will get heavier.
Your eating essentially defines what you look like, but I don't think that the macro breakdown is as important as everyone thinks it is. Calories at the end of the day, are the be all end all. That's a damned fact. Now someone will whip out the blueberry pie example on me, but I don't give a shit.
Joe Damico set a personal best in the Los Angeles marathon eating only MACDonalds (yes, MAC) for the 30 days preceding it.
Here's his blood work at day 25!
There was another guy that did the 30 days just for body recomposition and it worked as well. All he did was count calories, lifted and did conditioning and he got leaner and all of his blood work improved.
The blueberry pie assholes and Paleo zealots would have you believe this is not possible, but the fact is from my own experience I haven't found that macro partitioning made a HUGE difference if my calories weren't in line with my goals. When I ate less, I lost fat. When I ate more I got bigger. If I ate too damned much I got bigger and turned into a fat hog. When I ate too little however, I would also stagnate in terms of bodyfat loss. Guys in prison get jacked on like, 90 grams of protein a day.
There are some happy mediums. They are for you to experiment and find out.
But basically in a nutshell if you want to get big you need to eat. And you need to eat a lot of carbs. You will not NOT get big on eating in that fucking Paleo style with limiting carbs and relying on a "refeed".
If you want to lose fat you need to slowly lower cals to a certain point, then start upping your cardio. This is bodybuilding get-lean 101 for about eleventy billion years now and it works.
The other thing I see too much of now is this complete railing against milk. If you are lactose intolerant I understand.
One of the arguments I hear is that we're the only animal that drinks the milk from another animal and this shit makes me laugh and think I'm talking to someone who went full retard.
First off, this is like the caveman scenario in that are we REALLY judging how we should live by the way animals eat?
|At least he's not drinking milk!|
Dogs will eat the fucking carcass of another dead dog off the side of the road. They will eat cat shit. Most animals have the practice of cannibalism. Are you shitting me? We shouldn't drink milk because other animals don't drink milk from other animals?
Get the hell out of here with that bullshit.
Ok animals will drink the SHIT out of milk from another animal if they are offered it. I worked on a dairy farm for two years, and our Rotties drank milk from a 5 gallon bucket until they couldn't move. They could't wait for us to open up the tank and fill that bucket up.
Lots of animals are adopted by other animals and nurse from them. So this one is bullshit.
Oh and you know why guys can grow on Paleo with milk?
Carbs and more calories. OMG thrash about the floor intellectual trainer, you dope!
Bottom Line -
If you want to be a 155 pound ripped guy that talks about health, does distance running and thinks bodyweight exercises will make you as strong as you can ever be, then Paleo will probably be great for you. You will be able to buy into it and all the horseshit that comes with it.
But if you're a mass/strength athlete that wants to get as big as possible and wants to raise your strength ceiling as much as possible, you're going to need carbs and calories and possibly milk (GASP!).
When you need to take fat off, just do bodyweight x 10 in order to get a starting baseline for how many calories you need in a day to do that. If you eat McDonalds all day, so long as you stay in that calorie range and lift/run/bang you'll get leaner. Fact.
And BTW off topic, didn't we go to war for oil? That's what all the liberal whack jobs told me. Now gas is like $97 a gallon. Can we please go to war for oil somewhere now to lower gas prices? Sheesh.
I agree mostly, but the oil thing peaked my interest. "We" didn't go to war for oil, the military-industry complex did. And last time I checked, oil companies are making insane profits.ReplyDelete
Oil companies have always made insane profits. They make more when speculators drive up the cost of oil and gas, not because we went to war.ReplyDelete
America gets the majority of its oil from Canada actually.
I never understood the argument about animals not drinking other animals' milk. I mean, aren't there MILLIONS of old people everywhere giving their cats saucers of milk all the time? I'm pretty sure those same cats love that shit. Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure they're using the stuff from cows just like we humans do and not milking the neighbors cat.ReplyDelete
Also, if we shouldn't be drinking cows milk, does that mean we shouldn't be eating red meat? How much longer before someone mass-markets the "Cannibal Diet"?
I'd love to eat Mila Kunis.....ReplyDelete
The US does not get a majority of oil from Canada. Canada may be the single biggest supplier, but it is overall nothing - http://www.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_a.htm - Canada is about 15% of our oil imports.ReplyDelete
The point isn't even where the majority comes from - it is that we are on a cliff, and that any extra pushes us over.
Oil companies were making a lot of money before. They just make *a lot* more. Oil that were being refined by French and Chinese companies in Iraq are now being refined by US companies.
Sorry but you're wrong.ReplyDelete
From that article....
"Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum in January, exporting 2,826 thousand barrels per day to the United States, which is an increase from last month (2,713 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum was Mexico with 1,366 thousand barrels per day."
No we didn't go to war for oil. But it's your right to believe that we did.
That'll be all on this subject because I'm not a political site. MY comment about oil and gas prices was mostly a joke at the time.
MILK!!! Love me some milk. Yeah you're right about the skinny fat thing, same happened to me on low carbs, muscles just lack that full feeling. When I started eating higher amounts of carbs again, all lifts shot up, which really pissed me off actually because of all months I had wasted. Live and learn.ReplyDelete
My cat eats grass, pukes and then eats the puke.ReplyDelete
Yeah, we should base what we eat and drink from what animals do. People who say that are as retarded as my retarded cat.
My cat eats mice. Maybe I should too.....ReplyDelete
I love milk too Steven, and carbs. They make you big and strong, just like mom said they would.
Back in the early '70's, going low carb was the standard way for bodybuilders to get cut for competition. But nobody ate that way to get bigger or stronger and nobody did any cardio. I did the Di Pasquale version in the 90's where you go low carb for 5 days and high carb for 2 days but only when I wanted to drop a weight class. The main thing I liked about it was during the 2 days of carbs, I ate anything I wanted and as much as I wanted and was still dropping weight. I didn't ever try to gain weight that way, though. And I didn't call it Paleo or think of myself as a caveman.ReplyDelete
It seems like every idea that has to do with training or nutrition, once the "mainstream" discovers it, becomes a religion and goes off the deep end. So now I'm nobody unless I have "Paleo" tattooed on my arm while training my "core" on a "stability ball"
I like all the cat references. Funny stuff.
Just a quick note. The wife and I have been on a low carb (60 total grams a day for me, 30 for her,all from oatmeal) and decent but not high fat and protein diet for 3 months now. I am down to 200 (on hold right now due to surgery) and she is down 10 pounds. Energy is good, and I do crazy cardio so I am surprised. Of course, I am not trying to get huge or squat 500 x 20.
Here is what surprised me the most: my wife's cholesterol has always been high. It is a family thing (her dad had a heart attack at age 50). She tried everything but meds to get it down, but couldnt. We read an interesting Readers Digest article 3 months ago on how high fat and protein is actually more heart healthy, and figured what the hell.
Well, she went from a total cholesterol of 285 and tris. of 300 to, and I shit you not bro, a total of 170, hdl of 40, and tris of 54.
This is with eggs, bacon, cheese, red meat, (of course, small portions i.e. 2 strips of bacon).
My numbers have aways been good, but they were even better. I had a total of 154, hdl of 52, and tris were 64.
This is all the proof I need that this diet works for us and hey, I dig cheese and bacon ;)
Fat burns in a carbohydrate flame...guess the hardcore zero carb guys like to forget about that. Great article and blog!ReplyDelete
Rick - I don't think there is any doubt that doing low and no car correctly is good and great for fat loss.ReplyDelete
It is NOT good or even adequate for gaining loads of muscle mass and getting strong. Which is what this particular article was about.
You also have to remember that cholesterol generally lowers as people drop fat, regardless of how they do it. It's awesome that you and the wife used it for what it's meant to be used for.
Jay - I've been wanting to write about how carbs are related to fat burning for some time. Thanks for reminding me.
Good article, Paul. I thought I had the only dog that liked to eat cat shit. BTW, no or very low carb gives me a fuckin headache.ReplyDelete
I think every dog likes cat shit.ReplyDelete
I agree 100%, you need carbs to get big. I was just adding my thoughts as I didnt want people to think that there is no place for low carb, because there is if your goal isnt getting huge.
My wife is actually still about 15 pounds heavier then she was pre-pregnancy with the twins, so despite being a bit heavier, her cholesterol is WAY better.
I should also add that I only lift 2-3 times a week on this diet and focus way more on cardio.
Paul I am going to print this our and give it to my football players. Just this past Monday I was telling them that if they want to lift more then they need to eat more. I told them I fully expected them to gain 10 lbs. within the next 2 months. They looked at me like I was crazy. But i said, if you bust your butt lifting and conditioning and eat a ton of food, as healthy as you can, then net season we will crush some skulls! Get myself fired up just thinking about the speech...ReplyDelete
It def works great for shedding the pounds and dropping fat.ReplyDelete
If your focus now is conditioning then it's a good option to get lean with.
Dan - 10 pounds is not hard if you put your mind to it. Remember the keep the conditioning moderate if the goal is superior weight gain. 10 pounds in two months won't be hard for young guys if they really put the food away.ReplyDelete
Nice rant! Good points though..
In short: I did Paleo/keto/whatever for 3 months or so. It sucked, I lost weight (which was my goal), I was hungry all the time. I ended up skinny fat and weak.
Mark from Holland
PS. I finally started knee-rehab this week. Plaster cast is removed, I now have a very SM-like knee-brace. 6 weeks down, 3 months to go. Still walking with crutches though, but at least I can do some lifting now.. db rows and db presses.
Lactose intolerant - You have it made. That gives you the excuse to buy Lactaid milk. Its fucking delicious. Yes, better than regular milk, more expensive though. I drink about 2 quarts daily of whole milk with about 1 quart of that being chocolate whole milk. Seriously, try it.ReplyDelete
Don't forget, skim milk is for the pigs.
Absolutely moderate the conditioning. My basic template is 3 days lifting, 2 conditioning for gaining weight and 3 days conditioning, 2 days lifting for losing weight. I use this with just about any age and goal.
that's exactly how I do it as well Dan.ReplyDelete
You are not going to believe this but my cat will drink milk...COWS MILK no less!!!ReplyDelete
Mine does too! What a coincidence!ReplyDelete
I think you got it wrong, because I never read any article that states, that paleo is good for bulking and building a huge amount of muscle mass.ReplyDelete
If you compare it to the average american diet, you see that "paleo lifestyle" is much more better and gives people who arent into nutrition and sports a healthy base to live with.
I know some people who got rid of their stomach, gut and health problems by taking out all of their gluten containing grains in their diet, so this is a plus for paleo.
As far as I know, potatoes are allowed on paleo.
If you tweak the paleo diet, and focus on
meats, vegetables, fats and oils plus some extra carb sources, it will become an excellent base to work with, never mind if you want to lose fat or gain some muscle mass.
just my 2 cents.
p.s. sorry for my english, i'm from germany.
I've never said Paleo doesn't have any pluses. I'm talking about people claiming you can do things with Paleo (like gain good amounts of muscle mass) that it doesn't work very well for, and yes I've read people writing this.ReplyDelete
SEcond, lots of Paleo sites and recommendations are against potatoes. Take the time to go look for yourself, I've read it over and over. Potatoes are not recommended on Paleo.
Lastly, your BASE on a mass gaining cycle is protein and carbs. Period.
Oh my God, I feel like I've had trapped wind for the last couple of months and have finally just burped! Ok, weird analogy, but you get the point.ReplyDelete
CARBS! FML. I find the whole anti-carb thing REALLY difficult to deal with without wanting to hit someone. That's some very basic sports nutrition missing right there dude. Yes, you can train off fat reserves if you're an endurance athlete. But if you're doing strength work or circuits (hello Cross Fitters!) then you need carbs. If you don't have those reserves, your body would rather CONVERT ITS OWN MUSCLE into glycogen than use fat under those circumstances! Are you mad!?
(Sorry, I don't know why I'm shouting at you, we agree.)
And don't even get me started on the amount of meat these guys eat. As if Grok had access to vacuum packed chicken fillets, bacon and steak for 3 meals a day 365 days a year. The internal inconsistency kills me.
That and the complete side-stepping of the idea of evolution. "Let's eat like we did a 10,000 years ago, because THAT'S the most suitable diet for modern day man" Really? Have we not progressed in that time? Do we not live differently now, with different needs and demands placed on our bodies? Have you not heard of Charles Darwin?
And btw, did Grok have a Vitamix?
Like you say, I think there are some REALLY GOOD THINGS ABOUT PALEO (in caps for dissenters, not you). And those who allow some dairy and (pseudo-)grains are less of an issue in my book than the people who lift on 50g of carbs a day and then eat an entire coconut stuffed with steak. But then I think any diet can work well in the middle ground, so long at you're hitting raw numbers of carbs, protein and fat. If you're training hard and doing that, you're going to make progress.
Ok, rant over. I was even quite restrained. Sorry I got it all over you though. I think you unleashed something that has been building for a while.
(ps -- full disclosure: I'm a vegan / occasional ovo-lacto, but not for diet/training reasons. In fact the lacto-ovo is a concession to the training/my health)
A coconut stuffed with steak. F'n awesome.ReplyDelete
GREAT post Alison. Post more please. I love a good rant.
Thank you Alison and Paul!ReplyDelete
I ran across the Paleo diet when I was looking for a Vegetarian book (For the Vegetarian in You) Lo and behold I found a ridiculous site Which informed me that I (and vegetarians in general) am destroying the planet. Perhaps he should watch Food, Inc.
Which annoyed the hell out of me. Are you kidding me? So I did some research on the Paleo diet and seems like I Found a cult! Some of those dudes remind me of Parelli (gimmicky horse trainer) and his mob of unrelenting rabid fans.
It drives me nuts to hear people bash carbs! There are so many fantastic grains out there like Spelt, millet, amaranth, etc etc
Yes, there are bad carbs, but that doesn't mean they all are bad!
So they identify carbs as the source of all evil and disease and obesity and the cause of the second world war (okay, so maybe I am a bit;). Well how about this: people are eating refined products, too much sugar and whatever it is that they put into most grocery store products.
If you simply cut out refined foods/chemicals/additives, etc and started eating organic and whole foods of course you'd lose weight/feel better. It's not rocket science!
p.s. I don't care for cows milk, but I love almond milk ;)
Thanks for the spot to rant!
I always welcome a good rant. I like the second world war part. :)ReplyDelete
Ha! I just realized that I missed putting the word "exaggerate" with the bit about the war. Could not for the life of me think of that word that early in the morning.ReplyDelete
Early morning brain farts are my specialty.ReplyDelete
Holy crap! A good article -- on the internet??!!! This is like spotting a unicorn. Nice job, Paul.ReplyDelete
Well sometimes even the sun will shine on a dogs ass.ReplyDelete
"My guess is".....aaaaand that's where I stopped reading. When people want your guess, they'll actually come ask for it.ReplyDelete
In case you didn't notice, it's my blog. I don't have to wait on someone to ask.Delete
Isn't that a bitch?
Came to this blog via Dominik Feischl's recommendation on naturtraining.at and I was hoping to find the answer I was looking for. See, I hate keto. I don't mind Paleo. Which, btw., in nearly all forms allows for sweet potatoes (distant relatives of our western potato), which I guess is were all the confusion comes from.ReplyDelete
But keto makes me feel sick for at least a week when transitioning to it and then I feel not much better when doing keto. So a good reply to this trend would have been welcome.
But this rant is not it, because it presents aspects of paleo wrong. Well, it is a rant, but straw-manning this is kinda lame.
First: Calorie reduction, commonly known as "a calorie is a calorie" and proposed by you stating "have a calorie deficit and you get leaner". It is not the answer. It does work a bit (in the same vein than lifting a bit more makes you stronger and a little less makes you weaker), but this is more of an accident, meaning: It works, as long as the foods are not too overly engineered for one purpose. No one here will doubt that a McDonalds burger bun and a slice of homemade bread might have the same calories, their nutritional values are vastly different. But the main problem stems from the fact that a calorie is a physical measure how good stuff burns. And we are not furnaces. This is how the body metabolizes food: http://primalmeded.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/metabolism.jpg and hidden somewhere in there is why people actually get lean and strong on some paleo diets. And imho why some carb-eaters also thrive. But coming from the "a carb is a carb" angle is wrong.
Second: "We have been eating this for thousands of years". First: You made a similar point about cavemen that sucked and should not be an example. Guess what: Our early ancestors sucked, too, life-expectancy-wise and healthwise. The paleo argument is that evolution takes longer than we humans have been farmers so we have not adapted to that food. The criticism of that argument needs to come from an evolutionary biology standpoint, something along the lines of how fast western civilisations adapted to milk really fast, not by stating that cavemen sucked.
On a last note: Milk. No, the Paleo community is not clear on milk. Some like it. Some don't. But the "we are the only animal" argument is a strawman. That has been used by and against vegans for a while. The paleo one hints at the fact that a lot of people are lactose intolerant and implies for others the intolerance might be less developed and therefore hidden, but still leading to inflammation. It is similar to the gluten argument.
Dude, to say you are overthinking this shit is like saying Michael Phellps would make an "ok" lifeguard.Delete
Lots of our ancestors died of shit that presents no threat of us today because we have things like antibiotics. Not because of diet.
If you want to do a paleo diet do it. I will give zero fucks.
And yes, having a calorie reduction to get leaner IS the answer. You should have been in my house saturday night where there were 3 competitive fitness chics and 1 competitive bodybuilder, and well, they all understood this concept very well.
You saying that a calorie deficit works by accident is like saying a calorie surplus helps to gain weight by accident. I mean, you can't have 1 without the other. Sorry, you can't. Can't. I gave the example of the guy that did in fact eat McDonalds everyday, and got leaner. He just ate a calorie deficit with it.
This is why anecdotal evidence rules, and science lab bullshit doesn't.
My guess is, you're not very big and not very strong. And the reason is, you overthink everything you do in training and eating, like you're doing right here, and thus you don't do anything exceptional.
My advice? Eat good food (we know what that is), lift big weights. Eat less to lose fat (yes, that works) and eat more to gain (yes that works too). Quit overthinking all of this bullshit. Jesus christ.....
This comment has been removed by the author.Delete
Hi. I'm one of those people who has a hard time saying nothing, when someone's been picked on for no good reason.Delete
With that in mind . . . C'mon now. Tierlib pointed out some rather obvious untruths / oversimplifications in your post, and added a point or two. Granted that link to the Metabolism chart made my brain bleed, but I believe that was the point: "Metabolism is Tricky". That's overthinking? And even if it is, why be negative?
I'm guessing there are people in the Giddin Huge community, who seem talk to doggone much, about whey vs casein, isolate vs, em, non-isolate (this isn't my field), and seem to spend a lot of time, energy, and $ on everything but lifting - and then complain they're not bigger. I dabble in distance running, and I see a ton of this.
Sometimes this drives me nuts and I want to intervene with an extreme "SHUT THE F*** UP AND RUN!!!" prejudice. Other times I suspect they're actually getting what they want out of it and I should just relax. I'm personally much more knowledgeable, than many other runners who are much MUCH better at running than I am. Maybe that's because I'm a timid, non-self-actuated social misfit and bookworm. Or maybe I'm just more interested in spending 30 minutes here and there reading about the Krebs' Cycle, than in doing 52 4-hour long runs a year.
Either way, I've not found that being negative towards someone, helps either one of us achieve our goals.
Also, "anecdotal evidence" is basically an oxymoron.
All that said, kudos for passionately pursuing something that is fairly difficult to do (Giddin Huge), and passionately writing about it. You've motivated me to spend my afternoon & evening constructively, since otherwise I have to go to bed thinking that obnoxious gentleman who I don't agree with is out there somewhere, outworking me.
Have a great weekend.
Dude this is way late but I fucking loved your article. I'm not even a lifter, persay. I'm currently training in amateur boxing and for obvious reasons must do a lot of both anaerobic and aerobic cardio as well as circuits, plyometrics, and bodyweight training. Still, what you said completely applies to what I do. As far as your anecdotal evidence comment..agreed. But I also think scientific lab data is usually good to go and actually confirms what you're saying to be true. While it is true most Amercans eat too many grains and sugars, they are definitely not as evil as Paleo people make them out to be. A basic understanding of the Krebs cycle proves this. Awesome post!ReplyDelete
Great post. You are correct in all of your points but people like to make out like they are interesting and intellectual instead of eating enough and lifting enough. My granddad had porridge every morning and toast at night, served in the British Army, slung dick like a savage and lived until he was 96.ReplyDelete